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Shogun Total War

4 Rating: 4, Useful: 87 / 89
Date: July 11, 2000
Author: Amazon User

I have been playing Shogun for almost three weeks now. I've read most of the reviews and will comment on some of the common themes and add my own review.

Shogun is an RTS game, and it is done better than Gettysburg or the Close Combat Series. The battle segments are well done. I've read that some people had issues controlling there troops. First, the company promo states that the troops will act independently at times. Troop management in a battle is chaotic at best. Lose your general and your troops will certainly rout.

I have also read comments from people complaining about a lack of strategy guides. There isn't a lot in the manual, but the game DOES allow you to group troops and form them into one of 9 formations. Also, before you begin a battle as the attacker, right click on the leader icon for 7 different battle formations.

Shogun is a combination of Risk and an RTS. In the strategic overview segment of the game, you build your empire by occupying provinces, building castles and other buildings to produce better troops. This takes time, and while some people complain that the economic element of the game is rather simplistic, it is still a challenge to build a large empire and equip it with quality troops.

ECONOMIC STRATEGY

I am in the middle of a campaign and there are only myself and another daimyo left. I was totally caught off guard by the quantity of his troops. I doubt I can hold him off. I thought I had prepared well, but he outnumbers me by at least 5 to 1. It takes a lot of koku, and even more time, to build superior troops.

The great decisions you will face are to wait and build more troops, or to take that neighboring province since the enemy general is rated poorly.

And watch out for alliances. Yes, I have agreed to an alliance only to be betrayed the next turn. I have also had allies show up on the battle field and assist me in a battle. I also made the blunder of invading a province who was allied with a large army, who promptly attacked me. Be wary.

BATTLE TACTICS

It will take a few battles to get use to using 16th century troops, but you don't have to be a real general to figure it out. Attack enemy archers with heavy cavalry or sword bearing troops. Watch as 80 enemy archers disappear in a matter of minutes! IF you have good troops, don't be afraid of defending with less troops than the enemy. Archers can be dealt with severely.

PROS AND CONS

PROS

The game may be conceptually simple, but actually attempting to build a large empire with a great army is not easy. That simplicity makes the game easy to work with.

The choice to have the computer solve a battle for you can save time, especially if you know your troops will win.

The battles are fun, but battles with over 1,000 troops per side can be stressful to manage, use the pause button.

Ever attempt a bridge crossing using 16th century troops. What a mess!

CONS

Rebel troops will cause uprisings, but I haven't been able to create a rebellion in an enemy province, while my enemies have done so in my provinces.

It can get tedious to fight the same battle on the same ground four turns in a row. But I've seen that happen in other games.

The manual has errors, but who actually READS a manual? Trial and error is the only way. If you have a good grasp of tactics and strategy, you can win.

You'll need a ton of memory and a fast processor to play fast.

OVERALL Sure, there are some areas where the game could be improved, but that's the nature of all games. What you DO get is a game that gives you a large challenge, try to dominate Japan. YOU control your expansion as you expand into other provinces, YOU control what troops to build; archers, cavalry, swordsmen, YOU control the quality of your troops and YOU control the battles. What more can a gamer want?

Shogun, despite some minor flaws, does deliver a complete concept of a game which actually works. I've played a lot of games and I doubt you'll find a game that will keep you at the keyboard as long as Shogun will.

Feudal Japan is the perfect strategic arena

5 Rating: 5, Useful: 86 / 88
Date: June 27, 2000
Author: Amazon User

I love feudal Japan. I've been editor for a magazine on feudal Japan for over ten years, have made kimono, and love watching Japanese movies for hours and hours. I have the Shogun board game, and play that quite a bit. Since I review strategy games for BellaOnline.Com, it was a natural for me to buy Shogun: Total War as soon as it was out.

While the box makes it seem that the game is much like the board game, where you move groups of units from province to province (a la Risk), the computer game is actually far more comprehensive and intense. To start with, there are actual graphics for each member of a unit - it's more like having a set of forces in Age of Empires II than block-units. While you don't direct the individuals, they still fight on a one-by-one basis, which leads to stunning combat sequences when you're in full attack.

Back to the basics, though. The game's graphics are awesome. If this game doesn't incite you to go buy that P3-750 with a top end sound and graphic card, nothing will. The rolling hills, wisps of fog floating over the individual trees, clouds reflected in the smooth stream before you, each unit with his own armor and banners and colors ... it's stunning. The music is gorgeous as well. The narrator ... well, he sounds like a Russian citizen trying to wander around Tokyo. You can't have everything.

The tutorials are great. They do them in standard tutorial fashion, too: give the objectives you'll learn, step through those lessons, and then recap what you've learned. They are very helpful, and get you used to unit movements and formations.

You can choose the formation within a unit and of all your units in your attack force. There are of course different kinds of units - ground troops with swords, archers, horsemen with spears, and many other combinations. As you build your fortress you can create buildings for new and interesting troops as well.

Each unit has its own strengths, and its own morale. They work well on different terrain, and in different weather. Yes, weather affects troops too! Rain dampens the musketeers, while snow hinders other troops. Going up or downhill affects troops, and you can hide in the trees. This is about as close as you can get to some of the historical battles of the 1600s.

Speaking of which, in addition to the fully customizable battle systems, you can fight historical battles as well! Interested in how you would have fared against some of the great Shogun of Japan? Load up the battle and find out. Want to kill off a few close friends? You have that option as well.

Even if I weren't a huge fan of Japanese warfare, I'd recommend this game highly to any strategy fan. The combination of stellar graphics, great sound and quality gaming experience add up to a fun time for anyone!

best i've ever seen from EA or anyone else!

5 Rating: 5, Useful: 34 / 37
Date: May 04, 2000
Author: Amazon User

I've been a student of japanese martial- and cultural-history for over 20 years, and have seen many attempts to make a game like this, and bought most of them. the only other real 'success' i've seen was 'Shingen' for the old 8-bit nintendo system. 'Shingen' was a VERY nice piece of work for a turn-based game, but THIS? This is truly an amazing piece of work! Like everyone else, i've only played the demo, but the demo prompted me to do something i've never done before:pre-order the game! the 'playfields' are devastatingly beautiful, the troops are beautifully detailed and animated, and the donjon (castles) are downright gorgeous! Also, all the pre-set troop formations look like the programmers read the same ancient battle-texts that i have. each and every formation i've viewed on the game is exactly like what i had read about and seen diagrammed in the martial history texts. even the organization of soldier-movement during formation-changes is top-rate: every soldier knows exatly where he belongs at all times, and he moves accordingly. this looks like the kind of game that makes you want to dig out a bottle of properly warmed sake, proudly display your katana and wakizashi over your monitor, lace on your o-yoroi or do-maru, and start screaming war-cries like the generals in any of Akira Kurosawa's great samurai epics! I DO have some recommended reading before playing, however. Obviously, they're not REQUIRED, but if you want to win, they'll help immeasurably. the programmers seem to have used these books(at least 2 of them, maybe more) to program the AI: 'The Complete Art Of War' translated by Ralph D. Sawyer/published by Westview(ISBN 0-8133-3085-8) 'The Seven Military Classics of Ancient China', same trans./pub. (ISBN 0-8133-1228-0) 'The Six Secret Teachings On The Way Of Strategy', same trans./published by Shambhala (ISBN 1-57062-247-7) and of course any translation of Miyamoto Musashi's Book Of Five Rings. Remember: 'Being unconquerable lies with yourself. Being conquerable lies with the enemy.' -Sun Tzu

The best stategy game ever

5 Rating: 5, Useful: 28 / 31
Date: September 09, 2000
Author: Amazon User

Shogun is a great game. This game is divided into two modes, the turn-based strategy mode (like Civilisation and Risk) and the real-time battle mode (like C&C and Ground Control. This is actually the first time that this mix succeeds in one excellent game. You have to choose from seven rival daimyos (warlords) and simply conquer all Japan. But the task set for you is not an easy one. This game is extremely challenging with a superlative AI unparalled by any strategy game. This is one of the first games that you have to use tactics to win, by force. The tactical AI is based on the teachings of the great ancient Chinese philosopher Sun Tzu and his book The Art Of War. So, the first hint anyone can give you on this game is to buy and read The Art Of War by Sun Tzu (available in all good bookshops or at amazon on the web). Apply the rules and you'll win. The strategy mode is played on a map of Japan with all the provinces and their wealth listed. You move your pieces (armies, emissaries, spies, ninjas, geishas, priests etc.) into the enemy province and control the empire like that. Now, when two armies clash on the same province you can choose to go to a full 3D environment to fight the battle yourself in fantastic real-time. Here you have to apply all Sun Tzu's teachings and tactics in order to win. For the first time, numerical strength isn't that relevant. Tactics are far more important. The graphics are awesome and every unit has its own banner and armour all in eye-melting detail. This is the first game that has thousands of men fighting and dying at the same time in one battle. The sound is one of the strong points in the game and the English spoken is very appropriate with its Japanese dialect. The gameplay is smooth without glitches but I you have a low-end machine large battles can chug more than a little. Another great feature of Shogun is that it is recreated in the 100% authentic Feudal Japan and all the names, provinces, castles, generals etc. are all true, and this gives the game a strong historical content. Shogun is a very complicated game and if I would immerge myself into detail I could write far more than a thousand words.

PROS:

Excellent graphics, sound, gameplay and strong historical content.

It is recreated in 100% authentic Feudal Japan.

Tactics are vital for victory.

CONS:

The multiplayer modes are a bit complicated and unfinished. (but excellent all the same!)

Large battles (1000's of men!) can chug more than a little.

Shogun IS Total War.

Shogun breaks out of the AOE, C&C doldrums

5 Rating: 5, Useful: 20 / 21
Date: December 28, 2000
Author: Amazon User

Comparing Shogun with the other dominant brand of strategy war games recently (i.e. Warcraft and all of its numerous copycats, e.g. Age of Empires, StarCraft, Command & Conquer, etc.) brings to mind the old Sesame Street ditty "One of these things is not like the others, one of these things just isn't the same..." If you're tired of games whose battle and strategy mechanics are exactly the same and merely differ on the setting and names of units then Shogun is the game for you. This is the best combination of battlefield tactics and campaign level strategy I've seen in a long time. Shogun is a truly unique game in a genre that has been sadly complacent for the past few years. And the best part about Shogun is that while these other games focus on improved graphics at the expense of originality, Shogun retains both.

Just a brief list of the highlights of Shogun:

1) The 3D graphics are incredible. The battlefields look real, complete with mist, fog, snow, rain, and changing light levels. Also, each unit has graphics for each individual soldier and, while you direct them as units, you get to watch each individual fight.

2) The battles rely more on tactics, including use of terrain and weather, than on numerical strength. You actually have to be a good general, you can't just rely on a superior force to pound the enemy into submission. I've won (and lost)battles where the numberical advantage was at least 5/1.

3) The strategy component is just as important as the battles. You can negotiate treaties, develop your provinces' economies, choose your realm's religion, and send assassin ninjas to take out your rivals' heirs and top generals. And its all turn based so you can take your time planning.

My only complaint was that the strategy part could have been made even more complex. Rice is the only possible harvest for a province and all income is based only on trade, mining, and rice production. Also the diplomacy is rather simplistic. You can be "at war", "neutral", or "allied" but thats it.

If you want a strategy game that stands apart from the rest go with Shogun.

Finaly a game that is addictive and fun

5 Rating: 5, Useful: 24 / 28
Date: June 13, 2000
Author: Amazon User

Alright, let me first say this: Total War is one of the greatest strategy games I have ever played. Now, I'm not an expert or anything on Japanese history or what makes a good game, but mostly the only games that I play are RTS games and I've never been satisfied with them because they focus way too much on rescouce management and not the thrill of war (leading thousands of samurai across a battlefield to go and totally slaughter the other army). Shogun gets it right. This game is addictive as anything and will be one of the greatest games of the year. Also, I can guarantee that you wont throw the game away in three weeks. This might not be the most helpful review you have ever read, but I just had to get my opinion in here. I love this game and I bet that if you are interested at all in Military/Historical RTS games than you will love Shogun: Total War.

Only played the demo, but...

4 Rating: 4, Useful: 22 / 25
Date: April 19, 2000
Author: Amazon User

This game is great. It runs along lines similar to the games Myth: The Fallen Lords and Sid Meier's Civil War games; real-time strategy over a 3-D topographic battlefield. I found its interface clean and simple, a necessity when commanding forces numbering in the hundreds and thousands. The only problem I found was the unit's tendency to end up several screen inches away from where they were first directed to go. The tactical strengths and weaknesses of the units are somewhat unbalanced in the demo; trying a cavalry assault against a formation of spearmen in this game will never succeed, and light infantry will lose to a group of heavy infantry half their size. I hope that the units will be better balanced in the real game. The battlefields are more detailed than those of Myth, but not as finely sculpted as those of Gettysburg or Antietam; there are forests that can hide your soldiers, unclimbable cliffs, and steep hills that slow the movement of soldiers, but no rocks, no fields, no other types of cover.

In general, if you like real-time military strategy but can't stand the massive emphasis on resource management of most RTS games, this is a good game for you.

Board Game converted to RTStratagy Warfare at it's Best!

5 Rating: 5, Useful: 15 / 15
Date: May 24, 2000
Author: Amazon User

When I was in grade school, I used to play the board game that this game is based off of. We would play for days, like those good ol' days on Axis and Allies. Now that I am an adult, it's exciting to see this transform into an thrilling electronic version.

EA has a great R&D team who put a lot of research into their game. Shogun not only has historical truthfulness,(accurate samaurai warfare down to the man to man scenario)but it's 3-D engine rivals to that of Homeworld. For being a land view, it has awsome views of castles, lakes, forests even the army from afar. Then there's the AI, the enemy learns your tactics and style of play so that it is prepared for you (even down to the individual soldier AI learns as well) You can even play multiplayer online or via email! Asside from all the claims the British developer has made, what is it Really like?

Well the game play is easy, armies at the click of a button, formation at the click of a button etc. No more micro management of each soldier, how can you when a thousand men are slashing each other across your screen, of course you can zoom in and watch each one fight. Instead, you get to use what really counts, formations, strategic placement of armies, and ambushes. The background music is great, media always ups a game by A LOT. So if it's media ya want, it's media you'll get with the animation scenes done in the stye of the director Akira K. Anyway, this game is massive, see for youself and download the demo ... or read all the reviews. I'm Hooked! I'll be seeing ya in the battlefield online! Good Luck

I returned mine

2 Rating: 2, Useful: 26 / 38
Date: December 06, 2000
Author: Amazon User

I'm quite surprised to see the high regard with which people hold this game... especially, I'm surprised to read through these reviews and find how many people detail the game's significant shortcomings and then proceed to give it 4 or 5 stars.

Unlike many of the proponents of this game, 1) I haven't been fascinated by feudal Japan since I was 4 years old 2) I never read Shogun (the book) 3) I'm indifferent about the mini-series 4) I do not own a reproduction of an authentic Samuri sword 5) I study no marial arts 6) I belong to no Japanese animation interest group. In other words, I only purchased the game because it looked like it might actually be fun to play.

Evenso, I wanted this game to be a great game. The idea is terrific... strategy as in Risk and combat tactics like Myth combined into one game! But wanting this game to be great doesn't make it so. It was a nice attempt, but it just doesn't deliver.

My primary complaints about the game are in four important areas; 1)steep learning curve, 2)lack of control of the units during combat, 3)poor user interface, and 4)very poor manual.

Steep learning curve - there is a very significant ramp-up needed to get to a skill level high enough to actually succeed in anything. Plan on spending many, many hours of total frustration before you start to get the hang of what works and what doesn't. It would be impossible to overstate this. When you start a new campaign, your goal is to take over all of Japan. The game doesn't care that you are a novice, it will treat you with all the disdain of a conquering army. It will take advantage of the slightest mistake in strategy, it will decimate your armies on the field almost without exception. I'm not saying that you can't stick with it and figure out the nuances, but I drew tired of the game long before I reached that point.

Lack of control during combat - You give the orders to your troops, you start them out in the formations you want, but once the battle begins in earnest, the responsiveness of your troops drops off sharply, to the point where there is little to do but watch. Many of the people that want this game to be good, no matter what, will argue that this represents realism and is a PLUS of the game... but the reality is that this is a very frustrating element to the combat tactics of the game. In fact, the 'combat' segment of the game could rightfully be called the 'pre-combat troop alignment' segment, because once the fighting starts, your involvement is much more that of a spectator.

Poor user interface - other than the lack of control mentioned above, the UI for the combat segment is cumbersome, but OK. However, the UI for the strategy portion is excrutiatingly awkward. Nothing is 'discoverable' which is one of the basic tenants of user interfaces... which leads to the final problem...

Very poor manual - Shogun attempts to be a deep and rich game covering both strategy and tactics... it is in fact, two games in one. Why, oh somebody please tell me why... the game would come with a BOOKLET the size of the one that came with my keyboard? The effect of the poor manual coupled with the poor and undiscoverable user interface is that you will many times sit stupified in front of your monitor wondering out loud, phrases like, "OK... Uh... I have an ambassador now... So... Now what do I do?"

The bottom line here is that if you really want this game to be good and are willing to accept bamboo shoots under your fingernails for a long while, I'm sure this game will eventually pay off for you and you will come back here and give it high marks for its nice look and its richness... Otherwise wait for Shogun II which I hope will be oh so much better.

Looks aren't everything!

3 Rating: 3, Useful: 21 / 31
Date: June 16, 2000
Author: Amazon User

Okay - enough about the fabulous graphics and the great way it represents history - its all true. But what about the game? I waited months for the game to finally come out - I played (and got frustrated) with the demo, and then the game arrived two days go. Well I have played two games in two days, so I think I can comment on the game at this point. Its fun but not the game of the year (if it is I hope 2001 gets here soon!) I will probably keep playing for a while but this will probably not have me up late at night and then up again at the crack of dawn. First, the game is too simple on the economic level. Second, the "information" booklet that comes with the game is not informative, I have many more questions than it could ever dream of answering (which means shelling out an additional $15-$20 on the stratgey guide.) Third, the game interface is confusing and poorly explained by the inadequate instructions that come with the game - I am learning by trial and error. On the military level you do no get enough information to adequately control your troops. Yes, you get thousands of them - so what? The tactical display is wonderful but even if you have great strategies what good does it do if you can't get your troops into formation? It also needs some sort of scouting element - I spent one day wondering around the battle field looking for the enemy - this may be historic but is it fun? And that's the point here, graphics and everything else aside. This game is three stars worth of fun, maybe four if your bored but this is NOT the game of the year.

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