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Great Potential, Many Problems

3 Rating: 3, Useful: 6 / 8
Date: June 24, 2003
Author: Amazon User

First, I've owned and played MOO1 and MOO2. A lot. They were great,and I still play MOO2 occasionally. MOO3 appears to be a natural evolution of the game, and it has great potential. But...

There are plenty of bugs in the game and a pot full of inconsistencies. The first patch is out, but it does not make any claim to fix all the bugs and/or correct the many flaws in the game. My advice: wait for version 1.5, hopefully by the end of the year (my guess, not theirs).

The biggest problem, for me anyway, is getting used to the AI. Actually, there are two of them, one for the computer players, and one for you. The AI for the computer players needs work and the developers know that. But if you can live with the strange way it does things (e.g. going to war for no reason, then declaring peace two turns later, and declaring war again two turns later, etc.), you can play on. I'm not sure, but it may be possible that the AI cheats. In all the games I've played, the computer opponents were always far ahead of me in everything: ships, weapons, strategy, money, etc., etc. They can be beaten, but even in easy settings you'll have to work hard to do it.

Your own AI, known as your viceroy, is a macro-manager. You have to give it some guidelines, of course, but then it takes over and manages your affairs for you. Micro-managers beware -- you only make it harder by constantly fiddling with settings for your individual planets. Another "but..." You will want to get involved in some micro-management anyway, especially ship design and some building lists. You have to learn the hard way what your viceroy does well and what it doesn't.

There's more: you travel between stars on starlanes, just like in Space Empires IV. That makes for some interesting strategy. It also makes the game really, really slow. Research is another tedious process. You spend lots of time and money researching the empty spaces between objectives. Combat is...well, it's slow, too, and you don't have a lot of control. Also, all ships have to be assigned to Task Forces. I'm not sure why this was done, but I find the process unnecessarily cumberson. And ships that are not assigned are just not available for anything; they don't even show up on the map. Ground troops are managed in much the same way. I find all this too complicated. Individual ships can't be upgraded; you build replacements and (eventually) get rid of the obsolete ones.

The game manual is best described as skimpy. It usually tells you where the buttons are, but it gives no clue about why and how anything works. It's printed on dark gray paper in 6-point type, so if you use reading glasses, you can only read it in bright, direct sunlight. The illustrations are black on black and very small.

If you were thinking of buying the official strategy guide, my advice is DON'T. It was apparently writen for the Beta version; much of the information is incorrect, lots of things are completly missing, and some advice is completely wrong. Check out the forum instead.

In summary, this may yet be a great game when all the bugs are worked out. In particular, the viceroy is a cool idea that simply needs more work. Right now it's a bit of a challenge to play around the bugs and shortcomings, and because it's so slow at first, I find the game's not a lot of fun. While you're waiting for the next several patches I recommend Galactic Civilizations.

Like most, Iým disappointed

1 Rating: 1, Useful: 5 / 6
Date: August 21, 2003
Author: Amazon User

... the interface and control features are weak.

I was especially looking forward to the in-depth political side of MOO3, the give & take of alliances of convenience with the bitter betrayals (i.e. UN security council). I quickly realized that if you don't get into the Orion Senate then you never will. It's my impression that being in the Orion Senate is a random happening at the start of the game, you're in or you're out, based on how close your home system is to Orion. In the games where you are in and you try to get others in, the other races vote against you. In fact more races were voted out then into the Senate during my games. Empire to empire dealings go strictly along race lines, it was very predictable.

I found it frustrating that every planet changed my military production when the production finished (hello, I need warships not ground troops). I really disliked have to recreate my warships after improved technology was invented. I expected this to be automatic and my existing fleet upgraded when put into some type of drydock. I didn't find any way to upgrade existing ships. When any military units are produced they go into a reserve area, which if you produced a mobilization center can form an active unit from all reverse units. I found this very unrealistic.

In a game where most things are controlled by the computer, if you don't take control of ship to ship combat then you can't bomb or invade the planet. If you do bomb the planet, you have to keep bombing it turn after turn effectively anchoring your fleet in that system because the population and building get less in number but never completely get destroyed. Did I mention that when you take control yourself you will have to guess where the enemy is, because nothing shows you.

I did like the 3D galaxy map. If you can take control of a key system at the beginning of a spiral arm then you have control of the whole arm.

I also liked the research system. You can research 6 fields at the same time allocating X % to each one equaling 100%. You could also apply more money into research to gain more research points.

All in all, a very weak game. I have uninstalled MOO3 altogether for the hard drive space and went back to playing MOO2.

As bad as it gets.

1 Rating: 1, Useful: 5 / 6
Date: November 01, 2003
Author: Amazon User

MOO2 is one of the greatest games of all time. This being so, I bought MOO3. I was robbed. I almost never actually bother to write a review of any product here on amazon but I must do so now. I have to warn you! Stop now if you are even thinking of buying this game! I sincerely believe that some kind of class action lawsuit should be brought against the makers of MOO3. There is so much wrong with it that I hardly know where to start.
The fundamental problem is that the game is so complicated that you need AIs running practically everything to avoid the mind-numbing tedium... but the AIs are idiots! They absolutely can't get anything right. You can reset certain values to change how they act, but no matter, they'll still screw things up and you just have to shut them off.
Then there's the interface problem... even with the AIs turned on, the commands you most frequently need to give should all be accessible from 2 or 3 screens at most. Instead, there are at least 4 to 6 screens that must be accessed each turn for each and every planet you control. And that doesn't include taking any diplomatic actions, viewing the reactions to actions, engaging in space combat, or designing ships.
The graphics are as primitive as they come. Space combat looks more or less like triangles with lines extending between them (triangles = ships, lines = weaponfire)... and that's if you can even find the opponent.
The documentation is almost worthless unless you like to read low-grade space sci-fi. You get one densely written booklet, most of which is uninformative. Yeah, thanks guys! Even if this game had been fun, anyone who hadn't already played MOO2 would probably never have bothered (or been able?) to learn this one.
Then there's the really absurd stuff like the syntax generator controlling the computer's diplomatic speech. You get things like the diplomat "beseechingly castigating", "threateningly imploring", etc.
Finally, the game's producers apparently eliminated the possibility of engaging in defensive intelligence. As far as I could tell, all spies had to be given assassination or sabotage missions. In short, when alien spies wreak havoc in your empire, assassinating and sabotaging, there's basically no way to stop them... the most you can do is try and "get even". I'm almost in disbelief about this one since defensive intelligence was an essential part of the last game (actually, it should be an essential part of this one too!). Maybe I've overlooked something and there's a way to do this, but if I've overlooked it, that's just testament to how nonintuitive the interface is.
Anyone interested in artificial life programming, AI, sociological modeling, etc. might find some of the things in MOO3 amusing, but no one else will.
I can imagine that in 10 or 12 years some descendant of MOO3 might actually make a decent game, but it will be almost unrecognizable from MOO3.
Anyone who gives this game 2 stars is one of the above-named number-crunching types. Anyone who gives it more than 2 is almost certainly on the producers' payroll and trying to slow the freefall of their reputation. Don't believe a word they say. Some people are writing reviews making it out to sound like the trouble lies not with the game but with the game's players who are just too impatient or too stupid to know any better. It's a dirty stinking lie and anyone who's played the game knows that.

If you don't have an patience, don't buy this game.

5 Rating: 5, Useful: 4 / 4
Date: July 01, 2003
Author: Amazon User

... I played MOO1 and MOO2 religiously in my time and MOO3 seems to me to be a worthy follow up. Get the patch and look over the user forums at the Atari site. There are a ton of hints and how-to's published by hardcore fans on the official site that do wonders for understanding what's going on. If you've never played the MOO series don't expect this to be Quake - it's not and was never meant to be. It is a very complex game with nuances that I may never get, but what I have figured out works for me.

That said it took me a game or two to figure out how MOO3 differed from MOO1 and MOO2 and I like the changes. The AI really does take away from the need to manage build queues and takes up fleet constuction quite well - I have noticed that the AI tends to build more of some ship types that others, but that's easily fixed by marking those ship types as obsolete when you think you have too many. I like that I have a reserve fleet to draw on in a pinch without having to build one from scratch nearer to the front. I like that the ground combat is a separate step that is more convincing than sending colonists over to do ground pounding (as in MOO1 and MOO2). I still haven't gotten around the finer points of race relations yet, but I'm sure that will come in time. I also have a little trouble with the civilzation government types and the population unrest control, but nothing major yet.

IMHO, the changes in MOO3 help bring the game down to where it really mattered - exploration, combat, and conquest. While I didn't mind (and quite enjoyed) the micromanagement in MOO2, MOO3 allows me to not have to worry about how my planets are doing and focus on the big picture.

Overall a great game and a great buy. ...

Back to moo2

1 Rating: 1, Useful: 7 / 11
Date: November 26, 2004
Author: Amazon User

If anything this game got me reHooked on Master of Orion 2. This game just sits there and plays it's self and that makes it boring, very boring. Any chance we can get a Master of Orion 4 that is based on the aspects that made this line of games fun and popular instead of something new?

Surpasses MoO2... if you get through the first days...

4 Rating: 4, Useful: 7 / 11
Date: February 16, 2004
Author: Amazon User

Let me start with saying that when I bought MoO3 it eventually proved to be as addictive as MoO2, but it certainly took some time and initial frustration to get there.

Since MoO2 was such a big hit, it was up to the game designers to make a fully improved version for the next release. To me, they succeeded in several parts, but disappointed in others, with the main problem being that a lot of the improvements were sought in adding more detail. Of course this can be interesting, but most gamers do not desire a more complex version of MoO2 but rather a revamped and improved one. No wonder many of the respondents here are frustated about the complexity and the time it takes to get through the initial frustrations.

Nevertheless, I stuck with the game for the good part of a weekend and I am convinced that it is pretty decent game after you get the hang of it. Bear with me to see what I believe are the pro's and con's of this installment.

Pro's:
- The development plan structure allows you to stay away from micromanaging planets, so you can concentrate more on the interesting stuff in the game
- The space combat system uses task forces and selection of attack-type, making the guiding of space combat much easier and realistic. Although the interface looks tiny and amateuristic at first, it does the job of fighting space battles well. By zooming and panning a lot, the action improves significantly
- The existance of mobilization centers allows composing fleets at any system (that has one), thus negating moving around ships all the time. This definitely enhances the value of strategically positioned systems
- The importance of ground combat has increased, which I would say is more realistic. A planet is not easily conquered (the downside of this and the previous point is of course the game has to be won through attrition warfare, which is a lengthy affaire)
- Each race has a slightly different technology tree, making the importance of spies and technology exchange (even) more relevant.

Con's:
- The guidebook is poorly structured with the background story in-between the explanation of the game functions. Many key items of the interface and way the program works are not explained and can be found only by trial-and-error. This ensures that using the viceroys and planet production effectively is a disaster at first. The game is complex, and will take a steep learning curve to get going. This will certainly not appeal to everyone

- The AI quality for your viceroys (and arguably for your opponents) is shabby at best. Although you can state development plans for your planets which bring focus in its development, it is cumbersome to define and choose the appropriate plan for a planet since the computer determines the development plan type for you. What the AI puts in your building cues and builds on the ground is certainly not the optimum. The AI can be turned off per planet, but this will bring you back to micromanaging again
- Ships cannot be upgraded. (Since this makes life easier it could also be an advantage)
- Diplomacy has no real impact in the game; ignore it and nothing special will happen
- The graphics used are nowhere near what is expected from similar games. This certainly should have been better, even for a game where this has not the emphasis
- Running through all your planets to check build-up and production takes too much clicking around.
- It is best to use a high-end system to play the game in a reasonable pace; calculations and space combat have impact on playability for low-end systems

Some remarks in previous reviews are simply not true, but can only be found after some playing time:
- The diplomacy engine badly requires the latest patch, but after installment is not too bad (but still rather irrelevant)
- Although planets can only cue 3 items to build, these can be locked and therefore do not require attention after you have determined the goods that should be produced
- There are quick-build buttons for formation of armies and task forces which are quite handy and take a lot of work out of your hands
- There is defensive intelligence, but it is now part of the "oppressometer"

All in all, we have a game that eventually is a remarkable look-alike of MoO2 with some nice improvements in non-micromanagement and space combat. If you stick with it, you will see the extras of this release, but I believe the gamedesigners should have done a better job in playability, graphics and AI intelligence. So if you are an MoO2 fan and are willing to take time and get used to it, go out and buy it. Otherwise, wait for MoO4, which hopefully does not add more detail but solves the issues of this release.

Graphics/screen size are a joke on modern hardware

2 Rating: 2, Useful: 7 / 12
Date: March 27, 2003
Author: Amazon User

Screen size is fixed at 800x600. If (like me) you've invested in a high end graphics card (nvidia GeForce) and a high resolution LCD monitor (1280x1024) you're likely to be appalled at the game's graphics. Various user mods have attempted to improve the situation with more detailed ship models and more readable fonts. If you have a CRT and loved the earlier games then it may be worth a try, but on an LCD you'll either have a tiny rectangle in the middle of the screen or a headache inducing blur.

Astoundingly Disappointing

1 Rating: 1, Useful: 7 / 12
Date: March 31, 2003
Author: Amazon User

I was so excited when I read that a sequel to Master of Orion II was being developed, but I am truly astonished at how bad this game is. MOO 2 was burdened by cartoonish graphics and limited diplomatic options in dealing with other players. What it has been replaced with is primitive graphics, a buggy interface, and a nearly incomprehensible game which is just downright mind numbing. DO NOT BUY THIS GAME until it lands on the bargain table.

Flawed, but better than its reputation

4 Rating: 4, Useful: 7 / 12
Date: March 30, 2004
Author: Amazon User

If you buy this expecting another Master of Orion 2 (as I did), you're in for some disappointment. The game is far less intuitive, has a much steeper learning curve, and offers less immediate reward than its predecessor. However, if you stick with it for a bit, and get used to the game's emphasis on big-picture control rather than micromanagement, you'll find a very rewarding startegy game with lots of replay value.
Two things cost it it's fifth star. First, theree's a lot of bugs. Second, the AI leaves something to be desired. Still, its well worth it, especially now that the price has gone down.

Confusing menus, space battle sux, generally dissapointing

2 Rating: 2, Useful: 5 / 7
Date: June 19, 2003
Author: Amazon User

The graphics for the alien races were flawless, a masterpiece even, totally realistic looking, the rest of the game, was not. MOO 2 was far better when it came to gameplay, the space fights were switched to realtime, however controls are clumsy, and thats being gentle, gameplay itself is even worse, menues are burried deeply into each other, finance has to be nitpicked over each and every turn. Buy this if you like spending an hour or more each and every turn of the game, or like having to go thru 4 layers of menus to change planatery development(don't get me started on that aspect!!)....this feels like it was MOO 0.5! MOO 2 was far superior, I strongly recommend anyone thinking of purchasing this game consider dusting off MOO 2 and playing, the gameplay was far better there and the space combats there look 20+ years ahead of the garbage they want to call a space fight in this game. The only reason it got 2 stars are the animators who made the realistic looking racial representitives, otherwise amazon would have needed a 0 star option.

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