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Excellent game despite many flaws

4 Rating: 4, Useful: 12 / 13
Date: November 18, 2005
Author: Amazon User

Master of Orion 3 is a huge 4X space empires game which despite numerous flaws and a harsh learning curve is an excellent game. Read on if you want to learn more about it.

After playing my first 100 turns of Master of Orion 3, I disliked it. After 200 turns, I was ready to toss it in the trash. After 300 turns, I started to understand and enjoy it. After 400 turns, I was hooked.

The game suffers from a poor interface, which makes for a steep learning curve. A few of the most useful screens are hidden behind other less useful screens (Fleets overview is hidden behind ship design, for example). In the space combat scheduler, you can't see details of your fleets, so you somehow have to remember in which of the 20 battles scheduled for this turn you have troops for planetary assaults. There is no way to see which of your planets have deployed ground troops other than to examine them all one by one. There is no way to see what is queued up for construction in the second and third priority boxes on your planets other than to examine them all one by one. Alien empires threaten you on the diplomacy screen, but you have no idea what the action was for which they are threatening you. There are many other examples where this game would have profited greatly from better interface design.

The game has a very non-intuitive game system, which makes the learning curve even steeper. When your planets build starships, they go into your Reserves after which they can be deployed instantly in any star system where you have built a Mobilization Center, even if that star system is on the other side of the galaxy. After a transport fleet drops its ground troops, it automatically disbands. There is no way to transfer ships between fleets or to transfer mobilized ground troops from a planet to a transport fleet. When fleets or armies are disbanded, they go back into your reserves after a delay of about 5-10 turns, during which time they are unavailable. Oddly enough, all of this works fairly well from a playability standpoint once you get used to it. The need to wait for disbanded troop transport ships to reappear in your reserves in particular has a limiting effect on any empire's ability to swiftly overwhelm another.

This is not a game for anyone who *must* be able to micro-manage planetary development and ship/army production. It's simply impractical once you have more than a handful of planets. Once you have hundreds of planets, you will be grateful to allow the AI to handle everything, while occasionally tweaking ship production. The AI generally does a fine job with planetary development, which is necessary since there are hundreds of items which can be built. It's somewhat brain-dead when it comes to ship production, however: the AI will happily build nothing but point-defense or troop transport ships and utterly neglect your attack ship capability if you allow it. So you have to learn how to manipulate the AI into building what you need through the control of your active ship designs, while you occasionally re-work the construction queues on a few of your most productive or strategic planets to build some ships that the AI hasn't gotten around to queueing up yet. When you have hundreds of planets you will be grateful to have the AI running your production despite often struggling to keep it on the right track.

Despite the criticisms, I love the game. If you play in a large galaxy, the scope is huge, you can end up controlling hundreds of planets and ships, and a single game can last practically forever if you set the victory conditions to sole survivor. There are two other victory conditions you can set which can make for a short or medium length game: become president of the Orion Senate or gain control of all 5 of the "Antaran X" technologies. Despite many flaws, the diplomacy with the computer controlled empires is better than most games that I have played. In addition to the many agreements which can be made bilaterally between empires, some or all empires will belong to the Orion Senate which can pass laws affecting all its members such as bans on the use of certain types of weapons, trade embargos against specific empires, declaration of galactic holidays, declarations of war, and inviting or expelling members. Initially a computer controlled empire called the New Orions has the presidency and enough votes to have complete control of the Orion Senate, but as the other member empires prosper they can eventually gain enough votes to take control away from the New Orions and even expel them from the senate. And none of my criticisms about the AI apply to how well it does for the computer empires, all of whom are worthy adversaries.

I wanted to like this game, I really did.

2 Rating: 2, Useful: 13 / 15
Date: March 17, 2004
Author: Amazon User

Like a number of other reviewers on here, I seem to have been there from the beginning. Played MOO when it came out, still play MOO2 all the time (it even runs beautifully on my new XP machine, of all things, and takes up about 78 mb. I have newer games with savefiles bigger than that). Those games were/are great. They enticed you, encouraged you to explore and expand your empire, to try new and daring things (and even had humor, like how your 'citizens' in MOO2 demand a stadium if you happen to play it on April 1st).

M003 takes all those wonderful elements and converts them into something akin to getting partially stuck in a revolving door in 100 degree weather. The interface works..sort of, if you don't mind 15 subwindows at a time warring with one another. You finally figure out how to tell a mineral rich planet to build more industry, only to return later to find your Viceroy working on political buildings. Odd looking creatures occasionally show up on your video display to declare war or peace or engage in cryptic insulting matches like 'We peacefully demand you withdraw from our space with anger,' as if all the programmers were not just hooked on phonics, but smoking it like crack. You squint at glowing trade lanes, a new and hideous addition to the MOO pantheon, which converts your galaxy from idyllic space to a odd web of ships bumping back and forth like Los Angeles freeways writ large. You hope that on one of the about 8 CDs that make up the game you will find what you're looking for: Master of Orion III god damn it, bigger, better, and more glorious than ever. Another Viceroy proudly announces that your 40-transport ship task force is finally ready. Your WHAT? You begin drinking heavily.

In the end, you're left with something like Highlander II or Godfather III or The Phantom Menace..people keep telling you, with a mixture of pity and cruelty, that it's related to the great predecessors you know and love and that if you just give it a another chance, download a few more patches, maybe play it with 'Ode to Joy' ringing in your ears and 3 shots of tequila burning in your gut, it will all come together for you. Well, it doesn't. Somebody wake me if Master of Orion IV ever shows up.

Master of Orion III - Redefining Space Strategy Games.

2 Rating: 2, Useful: 11 / 12
Date: April 22, 2003
Author: Amazon User

Initially I wanted to pick up this game from the local Apple Store (Mayfair Mall - MKE), but weeks after it was released I gave up and ran out to CompUSA instead. My excitement was overwhelming and unmatched since the release of Warcraft III.

Both games represent a third generation of a best selling title, but where Warcraft improved their game, MOO attempted to Redefine it. This is no longer the beloved MOO we all were waiting for.

One of the reviewers remarked on the limited screen res (800x600), at first this didn't worry me - the past titles made good use of 640x480 and it sounded like an improvement...

Unfortunately they have increased type size to the point where you get MUCH LESS information on the screen - even at the new resolution. The planet tab can only show 4 planets at a time (expect over a hundred at the end of a small game). Star Names appear only when the Galactic Map is at MAX Zoom. You will be constantly scrolling around to find anything. The Sitrep (turn info) can display a max of 3 to 5 items per page. And the amount of info you must [peruse] is increased.

Basically the screen resolution becomes the Achilles' heel of this title, and plays a major roll in every thing you do, from reports skipped (i.e. read the first 10 pages - skip the last 30) to scout ships sitting idle because because you can't find them on the map. And when the computer starts attacking you... Your view of the map is so limited that it is impossible to see where your defenses are weak!

The documentation also leaves much to be desired. All those specials that you find on planets are mentioned nowhere in the book or the online help. You must first colonize the planet and look at the infrastructure panel to find out. The diplomacy is also better but not great. How many trade agreements do I need/want, are they just being renewed, or expanded as economies expand? How home I can have 2 "Open Border TA" for some races and only one for others? None of that is in the documentation and there will always be a good degree of confusion when playing - even after several victories under your belt.

It's no longer possible to upgrade ships, a major step backwards in a tech based game where your ships are obsolete before you can build them.

So what is good about the game? Planets can progress on their own, you don't need to keep putting things in their queue, they can also build things from multiple queues (Military, Planetary, and basic development). Mineral richness effects mining output, not industry. The computer can colonize for you (if you select it in the Empire Panel), just move your scouts on, and if there is anything good there it'll be colonized with the best planets first.

Conclusion:
At [the price] this game needs a lot of work, and is a big disappointment. If a patch comes out to increase the screen resolution then I would give it an extra star. If you could upgrade ships one more extra star, but the game as is should be avoided until it's in the ... bargain bin.

Pros:
Much improved AI, planets develop nicely, auto colonization, etc

Cons:
Screen Resolution!!!
Can't upgrade ships.
Spy Queue is only 4 slots - you must keep checking back every few turns as they retire/die.
Game is just not as fun as the past titles were.

Trying to be fair on all aspecs of this title....

3 Rating: 3, Useful: 14 / 18
Date: September 16, 2004
Author: Amazon User

Allow me to try and write a review based upon countless hours of play and analyzing the layout and structure. First, this is a 4x, DEEP strategy title. When first starting the game, leaving the help hints on and seriously reading them can help you better understand the workings. The manual; I use only to look up a reference if something is confusing me (a.k.a. what Casus Belle was). If you try to understand the game by reading it cover to cover you won't succeed. It takes TIME to understand how the game manages the A.I - and YES, you WILL be using the A.I. in LOTS of cases. The programmers wanted the gamer to feel like he's the leader/president/emperor of a galactic civilization, not a viceroy of a particular planet or solar system, therefor micro managing is definitely out of the question. Looking back over your systems from time to time to fine tune is what will get you ahead, not working out each detail of each planet each turn. Another part of the game - shipyard construction, can be very confusing if you don't know how each style of ship can be used. The only way to decide is to play, create ships, and see what happens. It's now second nature to me to create fleets and ship types, but it took many hours of understanding before I could finally do it `on the fly'. This review may sound cryptic, but really the only way to understand the game is to dedicate and play, with an open mind and a willingness to use your imagination. I personally believe that the A.I. could have been fine - tuned to balance ship and troop construction (It seems to build too much of a certain type). The game is slow, but consuming. I recommend it for anyone who loves deep strategy and has a willingness to learn. It could have been better though. Try to borrow or rent before you buy ^_^;;

Worst 4X game I have ever played

1 Rating: 1, Useful: 14 / 18
Date: December 27, 2003
Author: Amazon User

This game is so terrible that it's amazing it was ever released. Many of this game's positive reviewers have speculated that perhaps those who don't like the game simply haven't taken the time to thoroughly understand it. Let me assure you, this isn't the case. The more time you spend with this game, the more you come to realize how egregiously flawed it is. There are far, far too many flaws for me to offer a complete list, so I'll just mention the one that I find the most hilarious. The game claims to have an advanced diplomacy model, but the diplomacy appears to have absolutely no connection to the rest of the game. I can carpet bomb an enemy's planet, killing millions of his citizens, and the next turn his ambassador shows up to...offer me a trade treaty? What the heck? Equally bizarre is the way that races will declare war, then peace, then war, peace, etc. every few turns for no apparent reason. It's kind of funny at first, but eventually you just start ignoring the other ambassadors.

Save your money. They should have to pay people to play this one.

Don't buy - yet

2 Rating: 2, Useful: 15 / 20
Date: April 16, 2003
Author: Amazon User

Having been a fan of the first several MOO games, I had high expectations for this one; unfortunately, this game disappoints. Severely.

MOO3 has potential, but the game is unpolished in every respect. While there is a lot of depth to the gameplay, almost all of it is in the hands of the AI, with almost *no* user control over how the AI performs. Bottom line: little actual control of your empire. The manual, despite being 200 pages long, somehow manages to say nothing useful. And, though there may in fact be logic behind some of the game's aspects (such as space combat), given the state of the manual the odds are that you'll come away from this game thinking that 3/4 of what it does is random. Some things are just incredibly impractical. For instance, the size of the battle area never changes, and when the game is young and your ships are slow, it can sometimes take 5 minutes just to get in range to attack! There are, unfortunately, no options to speed up the combat.

I find what graphics there are to be rather nice, but the game has far too few. Where MOO2 had an assortment of colorful if cartoonish graphics, in this game you'll very quickly get tired of staring at stars and striated rotating spheres (the buttons and menubar being the only points of visual interest). The combat graphics are essentially the same thing, and there are no visuals for ground combat, unless you count a round grid that changes colors.

And, as has been said, the computer ai [is insufficient] to an unbelievable degree. It really makes one question how this game could be released as is. The only real challenge posed by this title is to figure out what the hell is going on; France put up a more valiant fight in WW2 than I think you'll find any of the computer players will. And, after about the 10th time the guy you're at war with proposes you and he enter a trade agreement (and then thanks you for rejecting it), you'll start to wonder.

And, as if all this weren't enough, the game is buggy.

If at some point this game gets seriously revamped (or the price does and you need a gift for that special someone), buy it. But until then, go find a birch and take out your self-loathing in a more humane ... way.

Sad

1 Rating: 1, Useful: 10 / 11
Date: August 26, 2003
Author: Amazon User

Sad. Just sad.

I LOVED and still play MOO2 on a semi-regular basis - one more turn, one more turn . . .

I waited for over a year, participated in the discussion boards (Clasby - the tiny giant) and anxiously awaited the game until my pre-ordered copy showed up. Part of the big enhancement was supposed to be the reduction in micromanagement but it is actually worse!

Example: you want to deploy five armies worth of ground troops to conquer some planet. Go to ground force creation, *click*, decide how big a force (division, army, whatever) *click* type of force (marines, tanks, whatever), *click*, then decide which specific troops you want in the unit, (potentially hundreds more clicks based on race, experience level or whatever but luckily there in an auto-build), *click*. Yes you could, in theory, decide that on specific troops to account for the planets gravity and terrain but the combat itself is so abstracted that it's really hard to tell if it makes any difference anyway. And you can't really figure out what exactly the terain is like until you've already unloaded the troops. Besides, you have SO MANY ground troops by mid-game that your really better off just dumping whole (and multiple) armies anyway. Ok, so now you've got the army, *click* ok, then got to another screen where you put them on your troop transports *click* - yes they have their own task force and you can add escorts - but you don't want to. Everything gets dibanded when you unload troops. That is they disapear for a time, then go into reserves for next deployment. Ok, so that's at least six clicks per ground force. You wanted five - so that's thirty clicks - at least. So much for getting rid of the micromanagement.

Moving the ships around once their deployed is even more frustrating as it's hard to figure out where they are, where they're going and so on. Ship design is confusing and muddled, it's hard to compare weapon systems etc., etc., etc. and basically imposible to build up to date ships. I spent A LOT of time going to every planets build que and deleting the old crappy designs, and the THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS of non-Combatant ground forces it wants to build to get something useful built. Even once that's done your 'viceroy' will change the funding levels every turn so you never really know when a unit will actually be finished.

Technology: Lots and lots of tech. To bad you can never be sure what exactly it does or control how, when or where it gets implemented.

Diplomacy: just accept whatever they want as it dosn't matter anyway.

Spying: Ugh!

I could go on about the details but the basic problem is that I never feel much in control of the game - and what I can control are the most tedious aspects. I'm one of the few who dosn't seem to mind the combat, but getting to that point is pretty much not worth it.

Sad.

A Wonderful Legacy of a Title That Fell Short

2 Rating: 2, Useful: 8 / 9
Date: April 27, 2006
Author: Amazon User

An excellent game idea. I played the first and fell in love with it way back when. This newest version though is a big disappointment. It doesn't have hardly any of the original style that made the first so fun and the interface on this one is *HORRIBLE*. There is no real hand-held manual for such a complicated game, only in-game and that is vague at best. Learning how to do something as eventually vital as build a fleet in order to defend or invade is hilariously ridiculous. At the time this series began, it was close to the only one like it and easily worth it, but it's clear they've lost the magic and the point with this one. Pass it by.

Booooring.

1 Rating: 1, Useful: 9 / 11
Date: April 26, 2003
Author: Amazon User

I have been an avid fan of the Master of Orion series. Now, I'm going to seek other venues.

Master of Orion 3 is flat. It is boring beyond reason. It is a series of pointless clicking of turns and hoping the AI does the right thing.

Sure the graphics are neat, and the music is acceptable, but the interactive elements are weak. Playing the game is like driving a high performance sports car wearing oven mittens, ear muffs, and a maximum speed limit of 15 MPH.

If you have a long life expectancy, no friends or family, and the need to fill in vast amounts of vacant time then this is the game for you.

I am truly disappointed.

This is how to destroy a good series

1 Rating: 1, Useful: 7 / 8
Date: July 09, 2003
Author: Amazon User

This is the worst game of the MOO series. I have played both of the previous MOO games and found them to be the best turn based space strategy games. I have spent several months playing this game, but I have found the menus and gameplay to be terrible. I have found the alien representative graphics to be excellent and the AI to be much better at managing the build queues than previous versions of MOO. I would still recommend reviewng the queues periodically to make sure the correct ship types and soldiers are being built to match your strategy, and that you are maximizing the regional development of your planet. If you want a good strategy game with engaging gameplay, go back to MOO 2 or check out the civ series by Sid Meier.

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